Evolve: An Introduction into a New Era of Leadership

[00:00:00] Carolyn: Today’s guest is Jennifer Bauer. Jennifer transitioned into life coaching and energy healing after 17 years of working in corporate marketing and communications. She’s a certified Master wayfinder coach Equis coach. A uc, Reiki master teacher, a breathwork meditation healer, and a Huah LOA practitioner.

[00:00:28] Jennifer recognized that in order to best serve her clients, she needed to integrate a variety of modalities into a more holistic coaching practice, and from there developed her own coaching framework that identifies where a client is stuck physically, emotionally, consciously, subconsciously, and spiritually.

[00:00:48] Jennifer has also founded the Institute for Nature Centered Coaching. She’s the author of Nature Guides Release and Reconnect Through Writing, and Jen resides in Sunny Orange County, California. I’m really excited to bring Jennifer Bauer onto our program today, day.

[00:01:12] All right. Welcome listeners. I’m really excited today to introduce you to Jennifer Bauer coming to us all the way from California, I believe. Isn’t that right, Jennifer? Yes. A little bit different than the snow that in the land where I live right now up in Canada. So welcome and I’m really excited to bring Jen into the Evolved podcast.

[00:01:31] There’s some peacefulness, some calmness, just some really amazing things that your work, I think is bringing to people. And I know I was really connected to it when I found it and just really. Have you on the program, Jen? Thank you. I’m honored to be, yeah. Yeah. So with Evolved leadership, I talk about three different elements of an evolved leader.

[00:01:53] That includes self-awareness, self-regulation, and co-regulation. And I believe that this is the way. That we can navigate through all the disruption and chaos as leaders are experiencing. So I’m curious, as we just sort of dig into the conversation, Jen, what’s been your reflection around those three elements in leadership right now?

[00:02:14] What are you seeing in the work that you do? 

[00:02:16] Jennifer Bauer: Definitely, I think the self-awareness aspect. When management and leaders can understand how they are affecting those that they’re working with, whether by example, their behavior, their reaction to things, their non-reaction to things, really sets that example and sets the tone for how everything kind of plays out from there in waterfalls down, right?

[00:02:40] And so having that awareness of how they are responding in the moment to what’s happening, because things move fast and I think. Leadership can get a tendency to kind of snowball into whatever the momentum of the energy of what’s happening around them. But if they can take a step back and really recognize themselves, be in that moment, take a beat, take a breath, they can kind of reset that.

[00:03:06] Pause button so that folks have enough time to be self-aware themselves, regulate themselves, right, and then really look at the problem or the solution from that perspective rather than just being caught up in the energy of it. 

[00:03:19] Carolyn: I love the way you say that being caught up in the energy, and obviously snow is on my mind, but I see this.

[00:03:24] Big snowball, just like we get captured, like we get caught up in it and rolled up and next thing you know, we’re doing things as leaders that maybe aren’t necessarily our first choice or we’re getting caught up in the moment. So what type of leaders do you see in your practice? Jen, I know you have a coaching practice, and maybe just help our listeners understand the experience you’re bringing into this discussion.

[00:03:44] Jennifer Bauer: Sure, sure, sure. So I’ve worked with a couple CEOs of smaller businesses. Some executives at larger companies and really the work that we end up doing, even though it is around their day-to-day relationships at work, it often stems back from their own upbringing, from how they were raised, how they were conditioned, their own personal environment at home.

[00:04:05] That plays a huge effect on how they are responding in the office environments. And so oftentimes what we can do is when we’re diving into whatever challenge they’re presented with, , they think it’s a work thing. And then when we start to dig in, we really realize it’s an old wound that we’ve scratched open and mm.

[00:04:23] That’s why we’re reacting and responding that way. Wow. And so when they can recognize that aspect of it, they know that they’re not responding to what’s in front of them right now. They’re really responding to something that, you know, was ingrained in them a while ago. 

[00:04:36] Carolyn: Right. And then in your work, do you unpack all of that?

[00:04:40] What has happened in the past, or is that just a reflection or sort of an awareness of, Hey, what’s happened in the past is impacting me right now? 

[00:04:50] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah, how do I move forward in the moment, right? So we don’t spend a ton of time in the past. It’s more of a when, when was the last time you felt this way or when was the first time you felt this way?

[00:05:00] And if it’s not that exact age and moment in time, then we know it’s something from the past. And so we don’t try to really snuggle into that past. It’s just that, okay, maybe that’s me from. 20 years ago, that’s responding. And then what is that costing me in the moment? And so we do a lot of thought work.

[00:05:17] Byron Katie’s thought work. Yeah. In her book, loving What is, and so we dive into that. And so just understanding like who am I in the moment when I’m responding with this belief system? How am I treating myself? How am I treating others? What’s my behavior in the moment? And then if I could set that belief system down, Who would I be in that moment?

[00:05:36] And it’s completely different. And we’re not changing any of reality. We’re not changing any of the circumstances that are happening. We’re just recognizing that if I were to exist in this moment without that belief, how would I be? And it’s night and day. 

[00:05:47] Carolyn: Right. Right. And I think this is a really important aspect of the message that I’m trying to bring in the world around trauma informed leadership.

[00:05:55] That word is really heavy and there’s a lot of baggage to that word, and how can we make it less heavy and understand that unpacking our trauma doesn’t necessarily mean going in and cognitively unpacking it and understanding it at all. In fact, you know, there’s a lot of research now coming out that.

[00:06:14] That’s not even the best way to deal with it, but it’s understanding that there’s a moment, there’s something stored in our body that’s causing us to react a certain way. 

[00:06:22] Jennifer Bauer: Correct? Yeah. Yeah. This is the old story that I’m carrying with me into the future. I don’t have to dive into it. I don’t have to understand it.

[00:06:27] I don’t have to look at it from all the different angles. I just have to recognize that this is a part of something that triggers me, right? And so if this is my old story showing up, I can go, oh, this is my old story and I. Not make fun of myself, but I, it can be a little bit more lighthearted, like, right.

[00:06:43] Oh, that’s that old story again.

[00:06:45] Carolyn: Right, right. Which is the compassion that we need to have. Yeah. Yes. And so in your work, what do you find is the biggest barrier to a leader? Getting curious about learning more about themselves and what their hooks might. 

[00:07:01] Jennifer Bauer: A fear of being vulnerable, a fear of being seen at that aspect of it, this fear of being imperfect.

[00:07:08] I think the more successful high achieving people out there are driven to really achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, that they drill into themselves is this, I have to be perfect. I have to be perfect. I have to do everything. And they don’t wanna be seen as imperfect. They don’t wanna be seen as having any flaws.

[00:07:29] Yeah. And so, The willingness to go there and recognize that is a challenge for them because then it’s admitting that they’re not, or that someone may find a flaw in them and then they will be rejected. 

[00:07:41] Carolyn: Yeah, it’s a real paradox, isn’t it? Because I know for myself, I would verbally say, I know I’m not perfect, and yet inside I did everything I possibly could to.

[00:07:54] Not be blamed for something. Yes. And I didn’t identify with the word perfectionism. I’m like, yeah, I’m not a perfectionist, I just have high standards. . Yes. So do you find that comes out with your clients like, oh no, I’m not a perfectionist.

[00:08:07] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah, definitely. Yes. The adults protest too much comes to mind.

[00:08:11] Carolyn: Yeah. The system that ingrains performance and when you get rewarded for performance, you can see how that just becomes an acceptable. way of being and, and you know, my experience is people don’t even realize the cost of that thinking. Yes. And it’s not till maybe something happens, like something devastating or your body just gives out on you that’s like, oh, maybe I need to rethink this.

[00:08:37] So I’m curious, how do you inspire maybe some stories or some insight around how do we really spark that curiosity or spark that? Elevate the importance of self-awareness in leadership, that it really is the defining factor of how you lead. 

[00:08:54] That’s a great question. I think once folks start to understand that it’s okay to not be right, and so some questions that I often ask are, is it, would you rather be right or happy?

[00:09:05] And that kind of. Sets them back a bit cuz this need to be right is so ingrained in us, especially from a performance perspective. But it’s like, but what’s the cost of that? What is the result of that in your life? And is it worth that cost? So would you rather be right or happy? And then once they recognize, well, I’d rather be happy, or I’d rather be free, or whatever that feeling state is that they’re wanting more of in their life, then it’s like, okay, well then if that’s the case, are you willing to be wrong?

[00:09:34] And what else can we insert in there? That then allows you to move forward in a way that is more empowering because when we push against reality, we suffer. And so our need to be right is our own block. And if we’re allowing ourselves to not be, that’s when we can actually move forward and actually perform better and higher and have the energy to be able to do that consistently and sustain.

[00:09:58] Yeah. Yeah. And again, you know, we get paid for being right or getting stuff done. Yes. And I think there we can conflate the getting stuff done and being right. They’re not the same thing. No . Yeah. Yeah. And especially in today’s day and age, you know, the right answer isn’t always. Well, there’s a bunch of different answers, a bunch of different ways we can look at things.

[00:10:19] Yeah. I know you and I in a previous conversation, we had talked a little bit about how micromanagement might show up for some people. So can you share some thoughts around micromanagement and sort of your experience in coaching with that? 

[00:10:34] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah, yeah, and I’ll even admit that that was me as a people manager was a micromanager based on trauma that I didn’t realize until later on when.

[00:10:44] Was feeling less stable in my personal life. I would try to attempt to control the minutiae of the details of my employees. And that was my way and my coping mechanism for trying to feel more stable and secure. And so, um, 

[00:10:58] Carolyn: and what would that look like, Jen? Like, it just, can you give an example of, cuz you don’t appear to me to be somebody that shows up and like, you have to do this and you have to do this.

[00:11:06] Like, what did that look like?

[00:11:07] Jennifer Bauer: I’m very different now. . Okay. Five years of doing this. And my own personal journey. I’m night and day different than who I was, but just needing to know every little detail, needing to provide input on everything and here’s how it should be done. And so I’ll give an example.

[00:11:23] When I was working at Intel, well, I was doing executive communications, e d I communications, and the team that I had was responsible for this big initiative. Intel had made a commitment of 150 million. Toward equity and inclusion. And so the pressure was on and it was high exposure with the c e o in regular meetings and trying to get documents done and this, that, the other, and I did not want anything to fall through the crack.

[00:11:45] So all of my direct reports, I was just on ’em, on ’em, on ’em, on ’em, on ’em, on on them. And the document needs to look like this. And the document, I mean, needs to have that. And it really wasn’t important, but in my mind it had to be absolute perfection if it was gonna hit the CEO’s desk. So, from those aspects.

[00:12:00] And then I would lose sleep and I’d be worried about X, Y, and Z. You know, oh, he’s gonna be doing a talk tomorrow. I gotta make sure the points are right and if the points are right, da da, da, da, da. And so it was way more work that I put on myself and my own shoulders that didn’t need to be that way.

[00:12:17] Carolyn: Right, right. And so that micromanagement, I think that’s a good way to help us understand. It can look like different things. It doesn’t mean we’re showing up and yelling at everybody. But it sounds like you were losing sleep. You weren’t able to focus on that connection with the other person. It was more on the output.

[00:12:34] Jennifer Bauer: Yes. Yep. And I need to see everything. I need to approve everything. I need to be involved in all the meetings. I need to know what everyone’s doing in every moment. And it was taxing on my employees. It was taxing on myself, and it wasn. Healthy or any of us, and it certainly didn’t give them the ability to.

[00:12:54] Let their gifts rise to the surface and let them shine in the ways that they shine. It had to be my way. And that’s not fair to anybody because everyone’s got their own gifts and their own ways of showing up. And I learned that through my own experience of recognizing, where’s this showing up in my life, even in my personal life.

[00:13:11] And so how could I take a step back from that and allow things to not be perfect and allow things to not go according to my plan and to not. , you know, a backup plan to the backup plans. Right. And, but that was all from trauma. It’s all from, I don’t wanna be blindsided, the rug was pulled out from underneath me.

[00:13:26] Yeah. Too many times that I don’t want ever that to happen again. So how do I see around corners? How do I avoid that? So my motto used to be proper planning prevents piss poor performance. Mm-hmm. And I that it didn’t serve me. 

[00:13:38] Carolyn: Right. And so I’m guessing that that led you into what you do now cuz you’ve set up some new programming.

[00:13:44] And I, I’d love to hear that next part of your story. So realizing that that was happening in the workplace, how did the next part of your story go, ? 

[00:13:54] Jennifer Bauer: Well, I got laid off many, many times and all for different reasons, all completely out of my control. And the more I got laid off, the more I tried to attempt to not be blindsided again.

[00:14:07] And so I think I got worse as a manager as I went along . Oh really? Yeah. Until I finally just threw my hands up and said, well, you know, obviously this isn’t the path for me. So what is, and that’s how I got into coaching. I actually attempted to use coaching as a way to make me more marketable on a resume.

[00:14:23] And then once I started getting into it and learning the tools and using ’em on myself, realized how much. Growth I needed to do and how much personal development I needed and how much I needed to heal from a lot of the things that had happened to me. And so I used that training to work the tools with myself.

[00:14:43] And then as I found my own freedom and my own, I just liked myself better as a person and I felt happier. I then was like, okay, I can’t go back to doing corporate marketing communications anymore. That’s just not where I’m passion. And so I dove in, and then pretty much all of my first clients were former colleagues that were like, wait, you, you’re like a totally different person now.

[00:15:06] How do I, you know, how do you get what you’re having? And so then I would share the tools with them, and then they would, you know, word of mouth. And that’s really how my business got going, was coaching former colleagues, former employees, and, and I haven’t looked back. And so it’s just been adding more and more modalities as I’ve gone along.

[00:15:21] And then creating my own training program based on what I’ve learned and.

[00:15:24] Carolyn: Wow. Now you said something that really resonated with me, which is your ability to manage or to be a good leader got worse as you were getting further down your leadership path. And I really, really resonate with that and here’s why.

[00:15:40] Now that I can look back, so similar to your story, once I had a chance to learn some tools and use them, I realized the more experience I got, sort of the higher up the leadership ladder I got. Yep. The more I tried to protect myself from getting blamed or doing the wrong thing. And I wonder, I’m not gonna create a blanket statement for everybody out there, but I wonder how many other people feel that, that the higher up they go in an organization, the more they feel the need to protect themselves and be right because they’re getting paid more.

[00:16:14] I just really resonated that. Kind of wanted to just pause and invite the listeners to reflect on that for themselves. Is that something that they’re finding in their own leadership journey? Maybe some people are a little bit earlier in their journey. Maybe some people are further along. We both had this experience as we got further along in our leadership journey.

[00:16:33] We got a little bit more, uh, contained with what we thought the right thing to do would be. And I’m curious if you have any other further thoughts on why that might be happening for. 

[00:16:43] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah, there’s a term called crystallize intelligence and liquid intelligence. And crystallize intelligence is when we’ve done something before, we rely on that neural pathway, that learning, and kind of copy and paste it.

[00:16:56] It’s a way that we. Become more efficient as we age. And when we’re young and we’re children, we don’t have crystallized intelligence cuz we’re learning things for the first time. And so there’s a lot of liquid intelligence and then as we learn and do things, it becomes crystallized. But as we age, if we don’t keep ourselves involved in.

[00:17:15] Learning and doing and new experiences. We lose that liquid intelligence and we rely completely on the crystallized intelligence. And as we go up the hierarchy, when we’re growing as leaders in our careers, there’s a lot of risk. In being curious, in doing things that are new for the first time. And so we rely on the way that we’ve done things in the past, the try it and true that may not necessarily be applicable to that current situation, but it’s worked for us in the past.

[00:17:40] So that’s what we know and that’s what we’re gonna do. And we’re not gonna take that risk. But the problem is the more we rely on that crystallized intelligence, the more we lose the ability to be innovative, the more we lose the ability to do things in a new way because we’re no longer. Allowing that to be liquid intelligence.

[00:17:57] And so I encourage leaders, if you really, truly wanna be innovative, and if you want to evolve as a leader and evolve your company, you need to be able to put yourself in situations that are new, that you’re learning things, that you are allowing yourself to take some risk because you’re doing it for the first time, rather than relying on that crystallized intelligence so much.

[00:18:21] Carolyn: Yeah. Which really is an invitation into welcome to the discomfort. Yes. Yeah. And finding that fine line between discomfort and full on panic. Cuz when we go into full on panic mode, then, you know, we’re beyond stress and we can trigger a whole lot of different responses in us. 

[00:18:41] Jennifer Bauer: That’s, that’s, that’s the fine line. And I hearken it to my yoga instructor that, you know, it was always like, stretch to the point of being uncomfortable, but not to the point of being in. Yeah, because then you’re right. Then we get into that panic zone rather than that uncomfortable zone and allow ourselves to stretch to be uncomfortable. Just not panic, pain, . 

[00:19:00] Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. So can you share with our listeners a little bit more about your program and some of the key elements that you find in the work that you do with clients that are really helping them get happier or find more happiness with who they are? 

[00:19:17] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah. It was interesting because as.

[00:19:20] Was doing my own healing. I recognized that thought work was only a component of it. I noticed that my body, I thought like my back issues, I’d herniated a disc in my lower back and I had assumed that that was just an accident, this, that, the other. But it was always in pain and. , I learned some mind body connection tools and recognized that I wasn’t having my own back.

[00:19:39] I wasn’t having boundaries. And as soon as I learned that my back pain completely went away. And so I haven’t had back pain in seven years, and this was something that I’ve had for eight years consistently. Just varying degrees of pain. And so that experience. Opened up my perspective and my field to recognize the interconnectedness that we have between our mind, our body, our emotions, and even our spirituality.

[00:20:03] And so I started to learn tools and I was drawn to tools that worked across all of those layers and aspects. And then I started to integrate them together into what I call a PEX coaching framework, which is physical, emotional, conscious, subc. Spiritual and the interconnection of that and recognizing people as holistic beings, and so where are they stuck?

[00:20:25] I noticed working with clients that we could work in the same area of thoughts and they could shift their neural pathways, but they were still having a trigger response and it’s because they had energy stuck somatically that needed to be released. Yeah, and so. now when I work with clients, it’s working across those different modalities and working with them holistically to really help clear that pathway for them forward.

[00:20:49] And sometimes that looks like physical ailments or chronic pain or chronic things that are coming up and recognizing what is the true root of that and can deal with that root issue to then, you know, open you up physically. And so once I started to integrate that together, I recognize that there weren’t a lot of coaches out there doing that.

[00:21:08] They were really just kind of the traditional coaching model is working. The thoughts, some emotional aspects of it, but really around the mentality aspect and so opening that field up, I pulled and from my network of folks that I, you know, had my peers and my colleagues. And pulled in 12 teachers and developed an 11 month training program that has a variety of modalities in each one of those layers.

[00:21:32] So in the physical, in the emotional, conscious, subconscious, and spiritual. And so result is the Institute for Nature Centered Coaching. And so it’s training other coaches out there to have a wider. Breadth of tools available to them to help. Yeah.

[00:21:49] Carolyn: You know, in preparing to write my book and all the research I did around that and understanding what that word trauma meant, eyeopener for me was that trauma is stored in your body.

[00:22:00] Yeah. And so what you’re talking about there is just such an important aspect of leadership to release what’s in our body, and it has nothing to do with our thoughts or anything cognitively. Our body is an amazing, amazing tool. And so can you share an example that maybe the listeners can relate to as a very introductory experience into what some somatic work might look like?

[00:22:28] Jennifer Bauer: Sure. With you. . Yeah, so there’s some tools. Where you can connect into the symbology of what your body is sharing and representing. And so I’ve had a client with sciatica pain and so recognizing, okay, it was on the right side, that’s the masculine side based on the location, that’s your route. So that’s your family.

[00:22:47] So what are the male relationships that you have, whether it’s your spouse, your children, your parents. Et cetera in your life that you’re having an issue with, and then diving into the symbology of what does that represent to you in that space, in your body? And everyone’s unique in that way. And so if they can bring their awareness into that space and into that pain and describe it, the messages usually come through.

[00:23:12] I was working with another woman who. Metastatic breast cancer and she has pain and swelling on her left side of her arm. And so when we started going into that in a meditation and she was becoming that space in her body, these beautiful messages came forward and once. The messages became clear and brought into her conscious awareness.

[00:23:35] She actually was able to release the pain. She doesn’t have any more pain in that part of their arm anymore. And so it’s that aspect of understanding what is it that your body’s trying to communicate to you? Because our cognitive reasoning, logical part of our brain processes 40 bits of information per second, but our body through our nervous system.

[00:23:52] So sight, sound, taste, touch, smell processes, 11 million bits of information per second. Oh, that’s a great. Isn’t that amazing stats? Yeah. The cognitive is 40 and our body is 11 million bits. And so what’s happening is, that’s why they say trust your gut. So your body’s responding, your body’s taking in a ton of information.

[00:24:09] It just doesn’t know how to communicate it with language. So it communicates it through sensory experience. It’ll feel constricting. And if you stop paying attention to that, you just push through whatever. Inconveniences in your body, that uncomfortableness, it’ll get louder and stronger and louder and stronger.

[00:24:26] And then that’s where you end up with some chronic issues because you’re just ignoring it. Yeah. You’re bypassing it rather than paying attention to what it’s trying to tell you. And so that body wisdom is so important and understanding and bringing it into the conscious awareness. And then the second step is actually making the change that you’re needing to make that your body’s telling you need.

[00:24:44] Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. That was amazing. Jen. I know a big part of of my book. Helping people understand that that body is a center of intelligence. Yeah. And I know my own experience was I just kept ignoring that girl and just pushing through and pushing through. Mm-hmm. and, and I know I still have lots of work to do, but it is incredible at how much it talks to us if we choose to listen.

[00:25:06] Yes. Yeah. And so Jen, where can people find out more about your institute and what you’re offering? Could you just share where people can find you?

[00:25:15] Jennifer Bauer: Nature Centered Coaching dot. And email would be Jen Bauer, Jen with two Ns, b a u e r, nature centered coaching.com to reach out directly. But there’s a ton of information on the website there.

[00:25:28] Carolyn: Great. And who should be reaching out to, like coaches, uh, people looking for coaching? 

[00:25:33] Jennifer Bauer: Both coaches that are wanting to add and broaden some additional tools and modalities to their toolkit. Anyone who wants to enhance and deepen their connection to nature and their own true nature through holistic healing modalities.

[00:25:48] And then if somebody’s wanting to work with a nature centered coach, then we obviously have the coaches that have graduated through the program that we can refer them. 

[00:25:55] Carolyn: Fantastic. Well, Jen, so many good nuggets filled in there. And before we close off, uh, I have three questions I’d like to ask that all revolve around being an evolved leader.

[00:26:06] And so the first question I have for you is, can you share a moment of awareness where you went, oh, like a real moment of deep understanding about yourself that just took you to a whole other.

[00:26:22] Jennifer Bauer: Yeah, and that’s going back to the back pain that I talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. , having lived with chronic back pain for so long, and being told that I needed surgeries and this, that, the other, to then practice a tool on myself to receive the beautiful messages that my body wanted to share with me.

[00:26:39] And then, The fascinating part was at the end of it, as I was thanking my body for giving the message, the message that came through at that point was, and you have the power to heal yourself, and I felt this icy swirling and my herniated disc like popped back in. And I had done this when I was in excruciating pain.

[00:26:57] And so to get the message and then for my body to just say, you can heal yourself and go right back in, was probably one of those defining moments of wow. This is incredible. 

[00:27:09] Carolyn: Wow, that’s amazing. Second question, a practice that you use or a routine to keep you in a calm state. To keep you regulated. 

[00:27:20] Jennifer Bauer: I love the practice of feeling into my feet and my hands.

[00:27:24] It brings me into the present moment. It brings me into my body. It brings me into my senses, and so just feeling into my feet, recognizing that their mind, that they’re connected to me, maybe moving my toes around and feeling whatever it is, but it really grounds me and brings me into that moment and quiets my mind in a way that it’s an easy, quick thing to do when I recognize.

[00:27:47] You know, my mind’s racing or whatever. Just go back into my feet. Go back into my hands. What are they touching? What are they noticing? 

[00:27:53] Carolyn: I’m gonna try that today. Right now I’m feeling cold feet, um, . Cause there’s snow outside. Yes. And then final question. What is a song that makes you feel connected to others or makes you feel that you belong to something bigger than?

[00:28:10] Jennifer Bauer: I’d probably say Nature Song. And what I mean by that is nature sounds. So I love playing these even, even when I’m working, playing, whether it’s rain or birds and trees, but just those nature sounds that reminds me how interconnected everything is and that every plant, every animal, every person has an important.

[00:28:32] And part to play and how we all need each other. And that symbiotic relationship makes me feel connected. 

[00:28:39] Carolyn: Hmm. And using that sense to hear it and feel it all come together. That’s beautiful. Well, Jen, thank you so much for joining us, uh, from the sunny California today. And we’ll have information for listeners if they wanna reach out to you and learn more about what you’re offering for coaches and also if anyone’s looking to hire you for coaching the.

[00:28:59] Thank you so much. 

[00:29:01] Jennifer Bauer: Appreciate it. 

[00:29:03] Carolyn: That was such a great conversation with Jen and I’m still left amazed by how much information our nervous system takes in compared to what we can cognitively process. Woo. Our body is an amazing. Instrument and one that we need to integrate into our conversations about leadership.

[00:29:30] As always, thank you for joining us on today’s episode, and you can always reach out to me@carolynsora.com. See you soon.